Fireside Chat with Wietse Wind

Transcript :

alrighty well we see thank you very much for joining us here uh greatly appreciate it and thank you very much for joining us yeah thank you sir uh let me uh squeeze up here alrighty well uh welcome everyone thank you for joining us today on our fireside chat we've got a proud turnout very nice uh this fireside chat will be recorded So that our growing ta Community can watch on demand uh my name is Ray Fuentes link to his community director and today I'm joined by link2's director of member sales Nick verifado aka Mr B we'll be hosting today's fireside chat with our special guest the world renounced xrp Ledger specialist and serial entrepreneur wheat you win thank you for joining us again Lucy now before we begin I'd like to give a proper introduction for we see as mentioned he's as passionate for the xrpl as many of us on this call and in our member base that's why we know that having we tea on this fireside chat will provide Great Value and insights around this emerging asset class and ecosystem now for those of you who may not be familiar with C he's a native to the Netherlands born in 1988 so he's a year younger than me Wheaties been working on computers since he was nine years old in 2002 at age 14 wheat built his first database driven web application for one of the biggest Dutch Supermarket chains and in 2004 wheat founded his first company known today as I Publications providing a Content management system hosting and custom web-based software developments for 100 plus smbs to large size companies so but it doesn't stop there in 2016 weeks he launched another startup this one called nodum a rapid development application platform with a subscription-based business model this is right around the time we'd see stumbled upon the xrp Ledger and to no surprise to his inner circle wheat began developing and Publishing open source code samples and tools for the xrp community by 2019 whitsie founded the xrpl labs and its Flagship product the Azam wallet which I and many of us on this call use and love so with that being said and understanding it's I believe 11 pm in your neck of the woods BT let's get down to business Nick do you want to fire you want to fire off the first question and we'll go back sure right yeah thank you that'd be great uh vits has probably recently put the kids to bed right so now his now is his quiet time at home I so keep on keep on doing it every hour these days they wake up I know I know so so what I want to ask you was uh just just to kind of lay the foundation give us an idea of what when you got into blockchain what Drew you to blockchain and then when did when did uh I think it was spring actually maybe did some funding for you at some point if you can kind of just give us that overview that would be great yeah so um like almost all developers in this space I I looked at Bitcoin in the early days thought it was very interesting it was also very easy to mine back in the days with my living room iMac instead of a screensaver doing some mining Good Times of course sold way too early it doesn't matter but I looked at it had some fun with it I thought it was interesting I went on with my life it was around the time when I was also a really busy uh bootstrapping uh my first company and uh um yeah too much to do too little time so then a lot of nothing in the blockchain space until in 2016 I saw a uh a recording on YouTube from David Schwartz the CTO of Ripple these days uh giving a really passionate talk about a different kind of blockchain based on consensus uh and and and how that worked it was on a technical uh it was a technical talk to C plus plus people and it was really intriguing and a couple of the things he said they triggered me uh and it was about the low fees low transaction times especially the low transaction times um and uh an infrastructure a way you can interact with the nodes that would just standard Technologies available in every web browser so I figured that it was really interesting technology to take what I already like from Bitcoin from back in the days but then in something that would work in retail if you're talking four second transaction times then you're talking retail Solutions and that's when I uh that's when I get really interested in in technology because you need to be able to apply it in real life so on the list the big list that grows every year with things you want to look into one day and then we were expecting our first uh child and I realized that I I had to take it easy a lot easier I was still growing the original uh uh the company I originally found it and I realized that uh I was going to take time a lot of time and uh I communicated that to my employees and everybody said it was a great idea and suddenly I had time and and I we didn't have the baby yet so uh first thing on the list was uh look into The xrp Ledger and within seven minutes after starting to do that I was connected with my web browser 2D xrpl and I locally signed a transaction submitted it and it was there in another account and that's uh that's that's a developer view feel good moment that's when you realize that it's actually very cool technology and you can use it for for whatever you come up with so I started to play around build some libraries build some tools and I thought it that it was interesting to actually use these features in real life on the web and it was a very active Reddit and Twitter Community uh xrpl Twitter and Reddit community and I built the xrp tablet so people could send each other micro payments as a thank you for explaining something for posting something for helping on social media and within two years a couple of million xrp was sent through it uh still a hobby I was thinking about what's needed in the ecosystem to uh to actually use the xrpl to solve the chicken egg problem where retail is waiting for the consumers consumers are waiting for retail everybody needs something to interact with this technology and each other and uh that's around the time where I realized that the blockchain it's all it's still like that today if you look non-custodial look at non-custodial wallets it's all push payment based and uh retail isn't push and friends going out for dinner and then settling their uh their tab that's also not pushed that's full someone wants something from you you are in a store e-commerce brick and mortar doesn't really matter you want their product but they want a payment from you they want to pull that payment or at least have you authorize it so a wallet is not a wallet without a platform behind it where retail developers users everybody can basically meet up and do something together and and the blockchain is just the payment rails on the dude didn't exist in the xrpl space so I I decided to build it and that's indeed when uh when when Ripple uh Ripple X spring back in the days noticed and asked me if I wanted to keep on doing that even after uh our child was born so that gave me the opportunity to uh to come up with this small team and start building wow that's fantastic you know what let me just say let me say this too that I wanted to add to Rey's introduction is after more than five years being in the xrp community and I really mean this from from from the deepest part of my heart um Pizza is is one of the most respected and and trusted just trusted people in the xrp community which you know people come and go and and things happen but over the years steady steady steady you have been there man and and I want to thank you for it and xrt xrp tip bot was just awesome I mean we used it for years I loved it I absolutely loved it so thank you for that too I mean that was uh that was really really a cool thing and I hope to see another version of it sometime in the future well there there is one yeah actually today some a Community member build one on our platform and it's it's an X app in some today be yeah actually being used it's a little little bit less uh easy to use of course because yeah people have to opt in first and the beauty of the old table was that you could tip a random stranger yeah yeah yeah for sure it's not coming back compliance regulations oh man all right maybe out of the world maybe there's a world someday where it will I hope so I'm very bummed guys I missed that xrp tip bot world so uh I apologize we'd see but I didn't miss the The Zone wall which uh I'd love to hear more about or we would love to hear more about uh the uh those developer Suite moments that you may have when you built these on wallet can we get a little backstory of of zum yeah definitely so um I I basically did the intro already about about some why we started to build it so it's it's a wallet it's a couple of things were necessary uh in our opinion too slowly start addressing the chicken egg problem in the xrpl space or maybe even some of the like the broader the broader scope blockchain um or or if you want to just dive into we can just ship years to the pro beta version that uh you're gonna be that's uh recently released yeah so we needed feature completeness so that developers and everybody can do anything on the xrpl didn't really exist yet we needed a user-friendly uh user experience and I mean still plenty to do there but I think it works pretty well these days and a lot of freedom for developers because this space is only going to grow if there are also developers building things so they should be should they they are able to build their own accepts their own mini apps inside some they're able to integrate with some and interact with users and um that's what we build and I think we've we've come a long way because we are right now uh uh onboarding real people in our subscription model with extra features like real-time push notifications will monitor the blockchain you can be in battery safe mode will notify you anyway uh where people get access to opt-in kyc because in the future we're going to do some identity things as well I think blockchain identity crypto non-custodial accounts all belongs together a lot of opportunities there as well and uh 20 hours ago yeah 21 hours ago we launched uh uh on and off ramp services in the Netherlands which of course is pretty uh uh a pretty cool considering that we are doing this ourselves there's no partner we got a license and uh uh we uh we are doing our own customer due diligence compliance AML everything which was very exciting very hard but we're live in the Netherlands now and now we're going to expand to uh other European countries hopefully with uh European coverage uh and the UK of course a lot of clients there and then and then possibly uh some some Asian countries after that and uh that's that's that's one of the big pain points when I'm when I'm talking chicken egg problem it's not only users and retailers and everybody it's it's money in money out and there are plenty of possibilities but if you want to make it really really streamlined for people uh to to really use some and the xrpl underlying as payment rails on an even payment loyalty points nfts whatever if you really want people to be able to use it uh getting their funds in their Euros their dollars and getting it out in one streamlined user experience user interface in that one app uh it's it's mandatory and this is the first step so uh very exciting if my eyes are very small I I hardly had any sleep last night monitoring everything but it um it works congratulations congratulations that that's a huge feat so so now that you have on our on and off banking rails um in the Netherlands does that mean that people can actually buy digital assets on the sum wallet yeah yeah it's they don't they don't once they onboarded the onboarding happens in some of course and it's only available right now for people in the Netherlands and people with a pro subscription so they get the other features as well it's 60 Euros a year uh and then it's all you can eat and there are no add-on transaction fees or anything on any exchange and the rates are as good or better as on the big exchanges so you're you're thinking uh Kraken bit stamp everything liquidity provider sources all over the world and we just give that those good rates to the end users because it grows the ecosystem it's required for whatever we want to do next and we we basically uh have full saturation in the xrpl ecosystem almost all users on the xrpl doing their daily transacting or having fun on the xrpl using are using our product so for us as well the only way to grow is to either look at other chains which which we're not going to do because we want to be laser focused at this one technology we believe in and uh and and grow the entire ecosystem where we're operating in so so so one other AD let me just one other add-on question to that is um will will the xrp people who are going to get their flare tokens be able to put their flare tokens on the some wallet they won't nope no so only through the model that works for the xrpl in general there there are ious on the xrpl you can Bridge assets to gxrpl and and the most the well-known parties doing that are uh uh gate Hub and bitstamp you can deposit your BTC Euros USD anything to them and then they can issue that on the xrpl to you so it's an IOU and you can also redeem it through them you can trade it there's a decks on the xrpl you can pay in those assets in those ious and GitHub did the same thing for for Flair the Songbird so they are ious by GitHub and you can redeem them to their native payment drills flare Network Songbird Network through them uh but we won't offer native uh support for Flair in some yeah okay fair enough got it VT uh to your point about uh and congratulations on the on and off ramps Now with uh with that being said in the ability of maintaining all of your or housing all of your digital assets on some would how would you classify the uh Security in comparison to Cold Storage versus hot storage how would you classify the Zone wallet yes so that depends on how you use them we we support uh multiple flavors and I think there isn't one solution that fits all it also depends on how you're you how you use your wallet and what what you are keeping in your wallet if you are keeping a large balance of xrp or any other asset it it just shouldn't be a hot wallet but you want to play you want to pay you wanna so you probably don't have one wallet you have multiple wallets it's what we uh we have this joke internally at the office where we call it the Katy Perry Hot and Cold uh model where you just have one cold wallet and then you have one or more hot wallets and every now and then you swap something from one wallet to the other uh but but our our vision for Cold Storage is that um it again it should be easy it should be safe uh and and the way what what we found we looked in the ecosystem for for products around and there was only one product we uh we really believe in and that is the the tangent card it's a hardware card it's a plastic it's an NFC card it's very cheap it's very secure and it's very easy to use because you just hold it against the back of your phone and then the card signs your transactions and some is your interface to dxrpl and the card being the signing solution and you can stash it away in a safe place or keep it on you if it's for your spending uh it's it's a it's the perfect mix between uh a hardware device a full device and you probably need another cable to use that as well so there's always this and and the software wallet where it's just less secure but I do think it's safe to say that we have one of the safest software wallets around and uh we we like to think we are building the safest software wallet and we are uh spending a lot of time doing everything and more we feel is necessary to do that but we recently hired one of the biggest one of or not one of the biggest one of the best security auditing firms for mobile apps and they are highly specialized in cryptography and uh we got a really really great report back from them with a couple of nice to halves couple of improvements to make but nothing serious there is no Mass exploit uh to Target some Wallets on on users that's great that's good to hear one of the things that excites me about blockchain and I think a lot of our members we we often chat about in our telegram group these smart contracts and at some point over the years we we all kind of been keeping our eyes out and been expecting codius to to poke its head out and and actually be something but I think recently you might have posted that you that you said codius is dead is it a dead project and do you see anyone else picking up smart contracts anywhere near the xrpl yeah um so yeah I I think the code is everybody is talking about is that because if even if you look at the GitHub repository the code is repository it shows its archives as read-only and the activity on the kodi's website has is non-existent for a couple of years now uh um so so maybe they're working on something uh without disclosing that yet and maybe it's going to be called coleus 2 or something but I don't know about it and the code is everybody's talking about it's not going to happen but there is a clear use case for smart contracts and they are lacking on the xrpl so the way the xrpl implements features is uh through amendments they become native features on the xrpl which is a great decision if you if you ask me because it makes sure that things are well documented and things are very efficient um and it works the same way for everybody and there's this whole uh process of getting the actual technology to the mainnet voting consensus that that's all working really well but there are a couple of things uh uh not happening on the xrpl some of the creativity you see in other blockchains because there's this this box with Lego blocks and you can just build whatever you like whatever you can come up with you can build it and then test it so that's that's missing what's also missing is uh yet again something I think is very much necessary to Target future retail adoption and they are things to conditionally deal with transactions transactions in into your account or out of your account or Asset Management in your account uh moving funds uh between currencies based on your own logic without you having to do that on a layer 2 solution where you have to trust your keys to again or think about uh the things notaries or lawyers do today where uh you might you might not have access to your account anymore uh and and today with non-custodial wallets that means that your funds are I mean they're still there but they're basically gone you can never access them again I don't think that will fly with future retail adoption um and even if you look at consumers uh small spending accounts loyalty points Collectibles uh you you cannot tell those people that because they lost this piece of paper because I don't know maybe they're in Africa maybe a solution like a tension card is pretty pricey there um so they go with the paper wallet and they lost their piece of paper or I don't know the dog ate it then well yeah too bad man you lost everything didn't you configure a backup on Ledger a regular key or multi size you cannot sell that no matter how easy you make it the user interface uh it's just just not gonna work and the the user experience is going to be horrible because of that and smart contracts can actually solve these things if a well implemented and well thought through contract interacting with the real world because all of these things have already been solved in real life with notaries with lawyers with with multi signing with identity verification now if we can blend that into smart contracts and have those two worlds the new blockchain world and the old world where all these problems have already been addressed if we can combine that with custom Logic on Ledger I I think we have a shot at uh at actual decent retail option in the future so we decided to build that uh and uh my team has been working for over a year on a native smart contract solution for the xrpl so your own custom Logic on Ledger and we wanted no compromise when it comes to transaction uh uh finality time so four seconds is four seconds or 3.9 and and and no high fee increase or through boot increase and we we managed to do that and there's there's an actual uh working test net today and the first developers are building smart contracts and deploying it to the xrpl being our test net it's called Hooks and then the next thing is bringing it to more developers with a JavaScript typescript like syntax which most developers can work with and uh and of course audits again bug testing a bug fixing test cases more more same routine over and over again until we're confident to turn it into an amendment wow that's fantastic see when you're describing all this this is getting us very excited I mean we're we're very uh we have a growing Affinity with the xrpl uh linked to ourselves we're developing on the xrpl as well uh and when you're describing these new improvements to what we know as a proof of consensus protocol is for other developers that might be developing on different blockchains uh also specifically proof of work or proof of stake do you think that you'll see a migration of developers from those protocols or ecosystems into what we know as proof of consensus um I I don't know about most of them uh if I I I don't know if proof of uh steak for example is gonna move to consensus or maybe a hybrid I uh but but I I do believe and that's one thing I'm certain about that proof of work is gonna have a lot of trouble in in the future uh because governments are at some point just going to forbid the waste of energy and you can have a discussion about if it's wasteful or not or maybe it's excess energy from solar panels and the grid is already overloaded still um it just doesn't look good it doesn't play right with the climate narrative and everything I think uh proof of work is gonna have a hard time in the future sounds like you're not holding any more Bitcoin so um piggyback on on that are there any other projects that you're working on that you'd want to share with us and and and and tell us about sounds like you're busy yeah very I I think we I addressed all of them already as part of the other uh topics but uh uh yeah so we're working on some uh and Retail Integrations there of course a lot we're working on the on and off ramps and expanding that hooks smart contracts major major thing because it it's also what we feel is necessary for the next steps with some with our core with our Flagship product and uh and at the same time we're also uh looking into the the non-custodial key recovery uh problem where we are actually going to uh file it this year people can actually visit them with a bunch of notaries and lawyers in the Netherlands uh where people can can get access again to their cure for example uh uh uh husband wife partner deceased horrible situation but funds are not lost then if you set this up one time uh and we're going to apply to this with obviously our our smart contract our hooks test net because we need the technology we build we need the layer one smart contracts we build um so we're bringing this all together basically and what what we view as the future of the xrpl ecosystem new technologies new Solutions collaborations between real the real world and the blockchain world yeah is there anything to your to your point we see that we see that is there anything that on or off chain that uh we should be paying attention to um well short term pay attention to whatever is about to happen when XLS 20 the nft amendment goes live on the excerpt appeal it's um I I don't really know what's going to happen which is pretty weird because I'm in the middle of this ecosystem and everybody building on XLS 20 the nft amendment is using our platform and using our wallet to interact with their end users and somehow almost none of the developer and we know there are many because there are almost 2 000 developers working on our platform building nft stuff because we can see that in our database we know what they're working on not the code but they register an app on our platform to be able to interact with the end users and there's nft in the name of the project so 2 000 developers say 1000 already abandoned it we're we're left with 1000 say 500 of them are still actively developing say 200 of them are almost ready to to show their product where weeks away from a potential go live of XLS 20 and we only had three or four uh of those projects reaching out to us about visibility in the application displaying their logo whatever so either they're already and everybody forgot to tell us or in a few weeks we might have the amendment and everybody's going to look at the ecosystem and wonder where everybody is where the minting platforms are and where the projects are so that's that's good that's going to be an interesting situation now if everybody actually pulled it off then I'm going to watch some metrics about infrastructure bandwidth uh Hardware resources stuff like that because if everybody starts mint at the same time it's going to be a challenging time for the infra I'm pretty sure everything will turn out just fine but it will be yeah are you concerned that are you concerned with all those nfts that it would be a spamming of The Ledger is that is that a concern or no so I think a ledger will handle it just fine it is the problem is the access to the network if you run your own node you will be fine but nobody runs their own notes so if you look at how people connect to the xrpl they're basically two entry points Darris uh a cluster Ripple provides also known as S1 or s2.ripple.com and there's xrpl cluster which is a initiative from The xrp Ledger Foundation multiple people contribute infra to it as do we because everybody uses that cluster to connect with their sum wallet we feel the obligation responsibility to keep that healthy and contribute uh and those endpoints are going to be hit hard and I know we we had a peak of thirty thousand simultaneous connections in the past and it was about the limit and we scaled since then but we never got another real live test so this this might as well be it hopefully hopefully everybody uh manages to to get in if I mean 30 000 is a lot but globally if everybody in the U.S just starts to Mint at the same time same time zone it's easy to hit 3K yeah wow so before we get into some of these questions we've got a couple of really great questions before we do I have to ask you this question because you're you're really an OG in this space if you knew who Satoshi was would you tell us no would you tell us anyway that way I I wouldn't so but do you think you know I I have no idea I I I no I really have no idea I do think that and this is this is not it's not I believe but it would make sense if it's not just one person yeah someone someone might be like the the front-facing person but there has probably been collaboration and discussions yeah you know what it is yeah you know what it takes so I mean it would definitely sounds like it would take multiple people well I had to ask the question Ray you want to go through some of the questions from our guests because I think we've got some really good ones yeah yeah absolutely thank you Nick alrighty I'm going to start from top to bottom oh there's a there's a there's a decent amount cool uh okey dokey truss lines thoughts on the proliferation of so many projects being built on chain any deterrences against Bad actors yeah well there that's the tricky one it's a it's a discussion I have on Twitter almost on a weekly basis where people say you should block those projects from spamming The Ledger and I was like okay but who's gonna block what and how and why why can't I I mean this is a permissionless technology either we want permission or we want permissionless if we want permissionless and I think we should want that for a for a public Ledger uh as for as long as that's possible when it comes to compliance and Regulatory Landscapes and everything um the way the xrpl addresses this is with fees and there or fees or reserves and there are two there are there are two tree fees reserves if you look at the the reserves there's the account reserve the xrpl has account ownership it's not like you have inputs and outputs on bitcoin and you move to a different address for free basically except for your transaction fee xrpl has account ownership and I think it's very useful because you have an identity on a blockchain you associate objects and and attestations and everything with it very useful now an account will set you back 10 xrp it doesn't really set you back you cannot spend the 10 xrp and you can retrieve eight of it if you decide to delete your account anti-spam mechanism it's just relatively expensive to create a lot to activate a lot of accounts because you have to reserve 10 of the xrps then trust lines and other objects like escrows and uh and whatnot to xrp and then there's a transaction fee which is just 10 drops will get your transaction in 12 with some with some padding or more if you do computational expensive things like multi-signing and hooks in the future um if that's not enough to block Bad actors then the fee should be raised which is possible because then someone proposes it and then the validators are going to vote on it and if if everybody agrees or 80 more than 80 degrees then you get higher fees and everybody will have to deal with it the problem is that will not stop Bad actors because the Bad actors are at their Third Rock pool and they have a couple of million to spend and they don't care about reserve and the transaction fees so you can raise it to to a level where consumers can no longer use the technology because it became too expensive for 70 of the world and you still don't didn't stop the scammer so I don't think it's something that The Ledger suits should solve other than how The Ledger addresses it today I think it's something the user interfaces should solve if someone is spamming The Ledger we can detect that run a background surface index the transactions match them and in your UI filter it out and allow people to enable or disable bad actor filtering basically or show a warning and then allow people to show it anyway things like that I don't think the solution is to uh make it because you'll make the blockchain unusable for everybody without addressing the bad actor's problem so it's a UI problem thank you for that and thank you for that question Michael uh here's actually one more question for Mike uh he he put in quotes the the quote of the day we're building smart contract books as quoting yourself uh VC uh where can uh Team Apollo learn more about this in the future or expect any news releases yeah so we published our design decision blogs from from years ago to two years ago we published source code and an entire web-based Builder tutorials technical documentation everything it's already there it's it's all out there and you can access it uh on hooks.xrpl.org well let's get that again hooks Dot xrp.l.org yes thank you et there's a link to the Explorer to the Builder there's the source code in the footer you can find more information and uh the link to a project to a website with the blogs and everything so uh thank you uh awesome one one more question uh from Kelly is there an opportunity for uh everyday uh retail investors to develop apps on zone or or exactly and yeah so where where can they find those resources and and insights um yeah so we have uh our our documentation or some documentation uh uh some that readme.io and there are a couple of tutorials there are libraries to use and uh if you look at dev.2 uh well-known uh developer blog publishing site and you search for some you also find several uh tutorials in different programming languages from community members who uh who already build on some in all kinds of languages a couple of people asked about that card you were talking about was it tandem is that what it's called it's uh it's called tanjim and we are actually selling our some brand attention cars as well and they come with a couple of firmware tweaks that make the cards even better and uh it integrates seamlessly with with some obviously okay so so that are so that all of our people can understand would it act as cold storage or it would act as a key to making a payment on the spot how does it act well it is it is semi-cold storage so if you if you activate the guard you get an R address if you if you deposit xrp in it into it and you put the card away then you have cold storage as soon as you want to sign with it you hold it against your phone you so you initiate a transaction and some you tap the card against your phone and then the phone is going to send the transaction info to the card the card is powered through the NFC antenna and the card is going to sign it sends the signature back to your phone and the phone combines it again some combines it again to a valid transaction and broadcasts that to the xrpl interesting thing is that the key is never outside the card the key is even generated in the card because there's a true random number generator inside of the card the card the chip in the cards generates the key the chip in the card signs the key and the key is not extra extractable so it's a pretty cool solution it's it's it's it's it's the combination of gold if you want it to be cold and usable if you actually wanna sign transactions with it and people can find it on your website yeah extra so uh xrpl Labs uh.com slash tangent or just in the app if you um if you okay find it it's in the short list if you uh here's my phone I don't know if you just tap the some home button yeah there's an icon here uh get tangent cards and we'll ship them uh to your doorstep in two days around the world fantastic oh wow excellent well I have no further questions and it looks like we actually actually there there is there is one more question uh that came in through the chat uh do and Gus thank you very much for your input sir do upgrades on the xrpl ever affect the odl corridors uh do you have do you have to stop adjust them in any way so no unless if there's a change being voted in and activating that actually changes the protocol to to a degree where implementations will have to be changed I cannot see that ever happening because I know too many people who would never vote for that because it's going to be an insane mess um it's already problematic so if you uh every every version every every release of Ripple D the the note uh implementation uh ships with features changes uh as long as the protocol stays the same as long as uh that that needs consensus stays the same you can always just upgrade and and and and and no votes are necessary if code is introduced in a version that changes The Ledger the logic the things it needs to reach consensus on and that becomes active that automatically means that everybody who doesn't have that version installed can no longer participate in consensus because they will vote on something else then the rest of the network is voting on so everybody's very very careful and considerate when it comes to even voting on certain amendments so right now there are a couple of amendments that are perfectly fine they're tested they can go live and still people are holding back their votes not because they don't want it live not because they don't believe is ready for prime time but because too many nodes haven't upgraded yet which would mean too many nodes get Amendment blocked so that's that's one of those scenarios where indeed uh odl corridors could be affected because if they for example use Ripple D notes that haven't been upgraded and the network moves to uh a version where uh features are active changing consensus or changing what what consensus is reached on and then they will have a problem but that's on them then they should have updated their notes they should participate in the ecosystem and see that there are new versions and monitor what's going on uh but every time when when Amendment goes amendments go live we have a very very busy week at support one of the things we're anal about by the way good good end user support reply within an hour no matter your time zone but if something doesn't work it's usually elsewhere or it's almost always elsewhere it's the exchange not processing a deposit it's the exchange not processing the withdrawal it's the exchange requiring a destination tag well you don't need one on a non-custodial wallet it's the exchange not updating their notes so pretty sure if XLS 20 for example goes live any Amendment will have a very busy week because everybody's going to complain that their transactions from our to their exchange don't work and then turns out the exchange didn't upgrade their node um interesting so if that exchange is an odl partner then yes it will affect uh older xrpl interactions well it's good to know that you are constantly uh upgrading your notes and uh taking that part of the back end customer service very seriously so that's why we do business with you or or me personally excellent well we see it's been an absolute pleasure serve your time and expertise and contributions of the community are greatly appreciated uh we look forward to having you back on ta a fireside chat very soon I mean maybe we can even get David shorts on and you guys can play chess and we'll see who wins but uh but thank you again for uh here for attending our fire chat today for ta and ta for for also participating and trusting LinkedIn with your Investments we couldn't do this without you so I appreciate you all uh see you next time thank you very much guys thank you thank you have a good evening thank you everyone